For Joseph Lungu, serving as Special Assistant to the President for Policy Compliance is more than a job, it’s a 24/7 responsibility. He says he can’t leave the office until his boss, President Hakainde Hichilema, whom he describes a workaholic, finishes his day, often as late as 23:00 hours. Lungu says he’s always on his toes because sometimes instructions come in as early as 02:00 hours.
Lungu says unlike some people who often speak without regard for the truth, he finds it difficult to tell lies and so when he says the new dawn administration has realised 90 per cent of their objectives, it’s because that is factual.
He further says President Hichilema always expects exceptional work; he is, let’s just say, as meticulous as he says he is.
And when it comes to making decisions, Lungu says while there are moments he expects the Head of State to act quickly, he’s often struck by how calm and unhurried the President is.
“The President takes his time, showing patience and thoughtfulness in his leadership,” he says.
Lungu says he takes his compliance role seriously and ensures accountability, even among ministers and PSs. He recalls an incident where a PS attempted to buy a VX, regardless of the President’s directive, and he intervened to stop the purchase.
In an interview with Diggers Life, Lungu also shares that because he works at State House, people assume that he has access to large sums of money, so they constantly ask him for financial help; including paying rent, buying mealie meal, or funding small luxuries, not realising that he is simply a civil servant earning a normal salary.
“…you need to remember that this position never existed before. So the first thing I did was to understand what was expected of me, and the President was very specific. He said, ‘Joseph, your job here is to do the following: one, we promised the people what we shall do, I want you to monitor that. I want you to score and record what we have done against what we promised. And not only that, we should also influence the system to do that which we promised to the people.’ This is the civil service, so you have to work within civil service parameters and procedures. You have to work with Cabinet Office, with various ministries, and implementing agencies. You also have to work with colleagues here. So the beginning was difficult because we had never worked in government. That took a bit of time, but we have settled in now,” he says.
“The other challenges are expectations from family members, members of the party, and society in general. One of the challenges I’ve come to have problems with is the expectations out there. Maybe because we work at State House, people think we are moving around with bags of money. So people want you to pay their rent, buy them a bag of mealie meal, or give them money to take their children to Hungry Lion. This is because of where we came from, I think our predecessors damaged this place. There was a lot of loose money, and people think when you’re at State House, you’re in a position to have money. No, we don’t have that money. Our predecessors, I think they had the money. You know what our friends used to do, I don’t want to mention names, they would spend money like drunken sailors. You know, money you haven’t worked for, you spend it carelessly, and that’s what used to happen. Contracts were being given to cadres under instructions from here, we don’t do that. I can’t pick up the phone and tell the PS, ‘give that contract to XYZ’. No, that is wrong. We don’t do that. So we have that challenge, the expectation that we have money and are swimming in it, but that money is not there. We are civil servants. I get a civil servant pay cheque at the end of the month, that’s the challenge we have, that’s the challenge we have to deal with. If you look at the messages I receive, people are always looking for money. I don’t have it. I don’t have it. This President has told us, and I agree with him, that we should not use these positions to steal from the public, to take advantage of our positions. We should take money where it’s supposed to go.”
When asked if he ever gets broke, he responds in the affirmative.
“Yes, like yesterday (Wednesday), I can tell you, the other day I had K36 in my Airtel Money [laughs], and in my MTN Money there was K29,” he says.
He says his day begins with prayer and revolves around the President’s schedule, often requiring him to work long hours and stay alert for instructions at any time.
“When I walk into my office, the first thing I do is say a little prayer. After the prayer, I look at my schedule, basically, I have two diaries, one for my President and one for myself. My diary is subject to the President’s diary. When the President’s diary is blank or there’s something that doesn’t involve me, I focus on mine. What I mean is, what’s in my diary gets suspended if the President needs me, his diary supersedes mine. So, I look at both diaries. If there’s something I need to be involved in on the President’s schedule, I attend to that. Then I go back to mine. My secretary and assistant help me manage my diary. If there’s anything I need to deal with, I look into it. I usually plan a week in advance, every Monday. It’s flexible, but I always look at the next seven days. However, the President’s diary can be planned a month or even two to three months ahead. Once I’ve reviewed both diaries, I check what’s in my in-tray, what needs immediate attention and what can wait,” he says.
“Now, with my Boss, I can’t leave the office until he leaves. And sometimes, he’s here up to 23:00 hours. I can’t leave until he does. He’s a workaholic. We basically work 24/7. The Boss can send you instructions even at midnight, at 02:00 hours, or at 07:00 [hours] in the morning. So, we are always on our toes. We have to be on the lookout for what the Boss has said or is asking us to do. Sometimes he even calls you, ‘Joseph, I want you to do this, do this, do this’. So, that’s my typical day, we report at 07:00 hours or 08:00 hours. I’ll give an example, like today, I came in late at 08:40 hours. But I usually come in early, around 07:30 hours or 08:00 hours.”
He says he shares a strong working relationship with his President Hichilema, whom he describes as highly intelligent and hardworking.
“We have a very good working relationship with him, but there are times when we engage in, not necessarily an argument, but in a debate. We debate issues with my boss. Before we arrive at certain decisions, we debate; I give my ideas, he gives his ideas. At the end of the day, we come to an agreement and say, ‘this is the best’. That’s the working relationship I have with him, we debate issues. Yes, we have disagreements, but it’s normal to have disagreements. That’s why I said when we have disagreements, we debate. I give my view, he gives his view, then depending on how the discussion goes, we come to some agreement. At the end of the day, he makes the decision based on the discussion that we’ve had. But it’s important to recognise the fact that he is the President at the end of the day. I’m not the decision-maker,” he says.
“You know, he is very committed to the cause. He is very committed to making Zambia a better place, a better country. He’s not doing it for himself; he is doing it for the 20 million Zambians, that’s his agenda. His agenda is not for him to benefit no, no it’s for the benefit of Zambians. He wants Zambia to be different, different in a better way. He wants it to be prosperous, he wants it to be united, he wants it to be more equitable, and he is committed to that vision. The way he works, it’s not for his benefit, no, it’s for the benefit of all of us. And you know, when you look at a leader, it’s important to look at the intention behind what he is doing. His intention is to make Zambians better, it’s not for him or his family to benefit. Actually, I would describe him as a very hardworking man, and very intelligent. He is very knowledgeable, even at a technical level, if you do some work and take it to him, a piece of paper you haven’t done very well, he will throw it back at you. So, you have to up your game, that’s the level he’s at. You have to up your game. You know, there is nothing I can take away from him. And if I could rate him, I would give him 10, being the highest. There is nothing I can take away from him. I can tell you, in terms of commitment, I would give him 100 percent.”
He, however, says President Hichilema’s patience in decision making often surprises him.
“I’ll give you an honest answer. There are times when I expect him to make certain decisions, but he’s not in any hurry. He is a very patient guy, that surprises me. I expect him to make decisions fast, but no, he is very patient, very, very patient. To some extent, I would say I’m a little surprised. He is not in haste; he is not in a hurry, no. He is very patient in decision-making, which tells you something about leadership, leadership must be very considerate. He has a lot more information than I have. His patience in decision-making really surprises me,” he insists.
Lungu further says that he has a challenge with lying.
“I’m one person who has challenges standing on the podium and telling lies. I have problems telling lies; that’s my biggest issue. Most politicians can go on the podium and say all sorts of things, but I have challenges with that. I’m very interested in dealing with facts and I am very comfortable with facts. When I put my point across, it’s based on facts. People don’t know this about me because I don’t stand on the podium and entertain people. People love entertainment, but I’m not the type who will go on the podium to entertain. Okay, I have my moments in certain places, like family gatherings where I can enjoy myself and be happy. But to go on a podium and shout, I have a bit of a problem. One of the things I can’t do is raise my voice. It’s not that I can’t, but I have difficulties with it. I will talk, but in a measured way, based on facts. When I make my argument, it’s based on facts. For example, the UPND, 90% achievement that we introduced, that’s factual. It doesn’t matter what people think; those are facts. It’s not even the backlash, let them differ with what is in that document. They may come up with some arguments, but they’re not going to dispute those facts. I’ve asked the question; is there free education? Yes or no? Have we paid pensioners? Yes or no? Just answer. There are maybe 12 questions, yes or no? Have we got all regions in this country represented at the Cabinet table? Yes or no? Those are the facts. I know they’re talking about the cost of living, mealie meal prices, and energy cost, that’s the concern, and we’re also concerned about those things. It’s not even the backlash; they have no argument,” Lungu says.
“The problem with politicians is they want to deal with generalities, but no, deal with specifics, specific issues. There is law and order in this country now. There are no pangas. You’ve heard of by-elections, but you won’t hear of pangas or blood being spilled, that kind of thing. The last few years, when our friends were in power, people were killed. So, these people who are disputing or saying we haven’t fulfilled our campaign promises, ask them, based on our manifesto, that document will give facts. This is what we promised, this is what we have delivered. Tell us, do you have alternative facts? No, they’ll just yap. Anyway, it’s allowed. I’ll tell you what, it’s their job. We don’t expect them to praise us; that’s their job. Actually, it’s provoking us to do even better, provoking us to do what the Bible says, to do good works. It’s actually provoking us to do better and continue working because I’m a believer in the Bemba saying that there must be noise in the nation all the time, and it’s healthy for development. There must be an opposing force for there to be any movement. Even scientifically speaking, for there to be movement, there must be an equal and opposing force. That’s the law of motion. So, it’s expected that the people in the opposite camp won’t support us. They’ll always criticise, even good things. They will find a way to criticise, but it’s okay; it’s expected. We don’t expect them to praise us. No, they have to stay relevant. If they stop criticising us, they might as well join us.”
He says is role as a compliance officer is to ensure that all government institutions follow policies and procedures.
“My job as a compliance officer here is to ensure that every government institution complies with government policy in terms of its activities and procedures. I also ensure that whatever the government mandates actually happens. This is done through monitoring, recording, and influencing certain processes and procedures to ensure they align with government positions. It involves everything, field visits, paperwork, one-on-one discussions with ministries, cabinet office, and government institutions, as well as interaction and engagement. It’s a heavy responsibility because you’re essentially like the Chief Whip in government, ensuring that everyone adheres to the policy positions. Yes, I do confront everyone who is not complying, ministries, PSs, everyone. For example, if the President says no one should buy a VX, I make sure that happens. No one buys one. So, I engage the Secretary to the Cabinet and say, ‘look, the President has said no VXs, so comply’. There was one PS who wanted to buy a VX, I pulled him aside and said, ‘why are you buying that vehicle?’ He denied it was a VX, but I said, ‘it’s equivalent to a VX, so you can’t buy it’. I stopped that. That’s one occasion I can give as an example, one PS wanted to buy a VX, and I said no,” he recalls.
He shares some of his best moments since being appointed to that office.
“I would say when we did the debt restructuring, when the President came back from France with the news that the debt restructuring had been concluded, that, for me, was very defining. It was like a python around our necks, as the President describes it. Everything rested on that. You know, nations are about the economy, and if the economy is not doing well, everything just collapses. [Additionally], CDF, for me, the promise that it would be increased to one million dollars — now it’s over one million dollars — that’s one policy initiative I consider a game changer. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Though some people don’t want to accept that, for their own reasons, I’ve seen it. When I go to my district in Nyimba and drive 100 kilometres from the district centre towards the Luangwa River, to a place called Nyakolwe, I’ve seen a new building there. There’s a health centre with running water, a maternity wing, and two houses for medical staff. There’s a solar-powered water pump and tank. You can even drive at speeds of 80 kilometres an hour because the road has been graded using CDF. For me, that’s impact. That’s a game changer. Imagine, for 60 years, some of those people had never even seen a car. But now they have a road. And that’s not just the story in Nyimba, that’s the story throughout the country. Every rural constituency has a story to tell,” Lungu says.
And delving more into his personal life, he reflects on some people who have helped shape him.
“I’ll tell you, in my work experience, I would love to work for or report to someone I can learn something from, and I learn something from my boss. In my working life, I can point to maybe three people I believe I’ve learnt something from. One, I learnt from my former boss at Mitchell Cotts Zambia Limited, Mr Alex Mashano. He taught me management. I’d say he’s someone I looked up to, he mentored me, to some extent, in the corporate world. He mentored me to become what I’ve become, or at least part of it. He taught me discipline, family discipline, and discipline in general. Imagine, between him and me, we were just the two directors in that company. It was a British-owned company before we had a management buyout, and we were doing things straight. Our bosses were in London. We could have done anything, if we were not straight, we could have just agreed, ‘today you’re getting 10,000, tomorrow 20,000’. Between him and me, we could have done that. But we ran that company in a very straight manner. There was no hanky-panky, we ran it properly. I was Director of Finance, he was Managing Director. We did it honestly. That’s the honesty I’m talking about,” he says.
“Two, it’s my pastor. When I came to Lusaka, I had been going to a church in Ndola called People’s Church Pentecostal Assemblies. But before that, I was baptised at St. Andrews UCZ. I left UCZ to join the Pentecostal Assemblies of God, People’s Church in Ndola. From there, when I came to Lusaka, there was a pastor at a church called Covenant Keepers. I used to listen to him on radio, and I just got attached to him, Pastor Jeromy. That’s another person I would say I learnt something from. He would teach and dissect the Bible in a way I had never seen. The other one is my President. He’s a very intelligent man, very hardworking. He is sharp. When we’re in meetings, he raises the standard of the discussion depending on the environment. He is one who can mix, I would say, at all levels. He can mix with the grassroots, he can mix at the corporate level, and he can mix when he is with kings and queens. That’s him. He is very intelligent, and I’ve learnt something from him, and I keep learning from him. It’s important to have a leader who can lead in a way that the nation can learn from. I’ve learnt discipline, I’ve learnt to do things honestly, and I’ve also learnt to apply my skill and knowledge for the benefit of Zambia. He keeps asking me a question: ‘if the nation cannot benefit from your skill, then you have no use’, he tells me that.”
He says his journey to State House began a long time ago as a founding member of the UPND.
“My journey to State House began a long time ago. I would say I’m a founding member of this party, UPND. When the idea to form a political party came about, when the founder member, Anderson Mazoka, may his soul rest in peace, was being harassed, when he wanted to contest as a treasurer at a branch level in Bauleni, the late Michael Sata and the late FTJ were basically harassing the man. We told him, let’s form a party. At that time, I was in Ndola. So, I’ve been a member of this party from the time it was formed. Of course I was not very active, I didn’t have any position, I was just a supporter and member. I became active around 2006. By being active, I mean I started attending some party meetings. When this President [Hakainde Hichilema] was elected president of the party, I was there. I would say I became active around that time. I was just a member up to 2010. In 2008, I became slightly active, but to hold a position, it was around 2011 when I was appointed deputy chairman of policy and research. Then in 2020, I became the chairman of policy and research. My job as chairman and deputy chairman was to run the research and policy unit. We came up with the party manifesto. First of all, in 2015 and 2016, we came up with what we called the 10 point plan, and then we revised that to our current manifesto in 2021 and 2022. I led the team that came up with that document. So, I’ve been a member of this party,” he says.
“But along the way, in 2011, when Sata won the elections and became president, the same people offered me a job. The late Michael Sata sent people from Cabinet Office to come and chat with me about a job opportunity. I declined. I won’t tell you what it was [laughs]. There was nothing specific, but he sent people from Cabinet Office to me twice to discuss the job possibility, but I declined. And I’ll tell you why I declined, I didn’t believe in what the Patriotic Front stood for. ‘More money in your pocket’, I felt it was just some slogan to excite the people. It lacked facts. There was no plan on how it was going to be done, so I declined that offer. Similarly, [former president] Edgar Lungu offered me a job, and I declined. I was offered a job at a PS level, but I won’t tell you which ministry. I was actually told, cadres came to me and said there was a letter for me at State House, that I had been appointed PS. But I was not ready to take it up, so I declined. I don’t know whether that is true, but a group of people came to see me. You know, the United Party [for National Development] talks about what Zambia is all about. It talks about development, not individual development, but national development. And I feel it. I feel this party is what Zambia needs. Zambia needs development. Zambia needs unity. Everything is embodied there. It’s very philosophical, actually.”
Marriage isn’t a tournament – Lungu
He says he has been married for 31 years.
“I’m married to a beautiful friend of mine. I’ve been married for 31 years, this year, we’ll be clocking 32 years in December. We have three children, one boy and two girls. The firstborn is a boy, the second is a girl, and the third is also a girl. The boy is around, he’s working for NAPSA. The two girls are in Canada. One graduated two years ago; she’s an animal biologist, I’m not too sure, but she studied animal science. She likes dogs and those kinds of things. The other one wants to be an economist. She’s in her third year at the University of Saskatchewan. I’m a Christian. I’m a church elder at Mount Zion Christian Centre in Kabulonga, I’m actually a founding member,” he says.
He says to have a successful marriage, one must make a conscious choice to be tolerant, to communicate openly and to find time for each other no matter how busy the schedules get.
“It’s something that you decide in your mind, that this is what I want, and you have to be tolerant. None of us is perfect. I’m not an angel; I make mistakes, my wife makes mistakes, but we have to tolerate each other. We live for each other, I live for her and she lives for me. We agreed that in case we have issues, we discuss them, and we agree, we communicate. We are straight with each other. And also, what we have done is give ourselves space to progress professionally. She is a lawyer, an advocate of the High Court of Zambia. She is also an aircraft engineer. That combination, that’s who she is. We create time for each other. We have to create time for each other, and deliberately so. Yes, I’m busy, and she is also busy, but we deliberately create time. We spend time when we can, for example, when we are not in our offices or not working, we leave home, go have lunch together, take a drive, just to spend time together. Yeah, we do that. I know it doesn’t happen that often, but once we have an opportunity, we use that opportunity to spend time together,” Lungu says.
“[Some marriages fail because of] self-interest and selfishness. People have gotten into marriage for the wrong reasons, and selfishness is when it has to be my way and my way only, no. When you get into marriage, it’s a shared life. So, there are things that you give up, there are things that your wife gives up, and there are things that the husband gives up to make things work. If you’re not ready to give up certain things for the sake of your friend, don’t get into marriage. Get into marriage if you’re ready to share your life with someone else. If you’re not ready to share, if you want to remain an island, you want to remain the way you’ve been, and you want everything to go your way, don’t get into marriage. Marriage is about compromise. Remember, you have different backgrounds and different experiences, and when you come together, you have to give up certain things for the sake of the other person. When you get into marriage, please note, you should work to please the other party, full stop. You die to self, basically. You die to self for the sake of the marriage. And when you’ve been married for a long time, like some of us, almost 32, she’s part of me, and I’m part of her. There is no competition. The problem I see now is people getting into marriage, then it becomes a tournament, who’s going to win? There’s competition, who is winning the argument, who is winning what? No. Avoid tournaments. It’s not a competition. No. It’s not a slagging match. No.”
Asked how he unwinds, Lungu says he enjoys watching football.
“I watch TV, I watch the news, but the best therapy is basically watching football. Like now, football is on. I also read books. I support Liverpool FC, but locally, I support Mufulira Wanderers. Naturally, I was born there and grew up there. No, no, I’m not a Nkana supporter, those are issues [laughs]. I support Mufulira Wanderers; that’s my local team,” he says.
Lungu shares a brief description of his childhood.
“I’m just a citizen of this country, a humble citizen of Zambia. I was born in Mufulira in August 1960. My mum was just a housewife; my dad used to work for the mines, he was a shunter. He is the one who used to drive… there’s that ka thing which used to carry copper from the smelter to go and dump, that’s the job he did at the mines in 1960 in Mufulira. We stayed in Mufulira up to 1964, and then just before independence, dad decided to leave Mufulira and go back to the village. Now, going back to the village, he had a choice, either to go back to Nyimba, where I come from, or go to Petauke, where my mum had come from. Let me just say, my grandparents originally came from Nyimba, Chifuna Village. Mum was also from Petauke. How they met, I also don’t know, but somehow, they met and found themselves in Mufulira. That time in 1964, before independence, as I have said, dad decided to leave and go back to the village. He actually wanted to go and become a village headman. So now, he had a choice to go to Petauke or to Nyimba, but he decided to go against that. There was fear, this is based on what I was told, there was witchcraft, so he decided not to go back there. He decided to settle in Luano Valley,” narrates Lungu.
“I was there with them, but then I left to go back to Mufulira and stay with my aunty. My other siblings remained. Me, I went back to go and stay with my aunt in Mufulira. There, I enrolled in school, Grade One at Mufulira Primary, but I was there for a very short period. From there, I went back to the village because I was a bit of a naughty boy, so I was sent back to the village and continued with school. There was a bit of a problem because where we lived, there was no school nearby. The only other school that was there was across what we now call Rufunsa District, that’s where the school is now. That’s where I did my Grade Five to Grade Seven at a place called Shikabita Primary School. From there, I went to St. Paul’s. I passed and went to Kabwe St. Paul’s Secondary School. I was there for five years; from 1976 to 1980. After that, I went to National Service, I was there for six months. After that, I went to the University of Zambia in Ndola, which is now called Copperbelt University, I was at UnzaNdo. I graduated in 1985. I was studying Bachelor of Accounting and Finance.”
Lungu has over 39 years of experience in financial and general management. His extensive career includes serving as Finance Director at Mitchell Cotts (Zambia) Limited and as General Manager at Dana Holdings Limited. He has also held key roles at Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (Zesco), Lusaka Co-operative Union and TAP Building Products Limited.
In 1999, he pursued an MBA in Finance at Oxford Brookes University in the United Kingdom, which he self-sponsored. Upon completing his MBA, he worked as a Researcher at the Bartlett School of Planning, University of London. He also briefly served as a Safety Officer at the British Broadcasting Services in White City, London, before returning to Zambia in 2002.
He has attended various professional courses and seminars in debt management, budgeting and budgetary control, payroll accounting, IT, finance, and security administration, both locally and internationally, including in Brazil, the UAE, and the UK.
